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	<title>Comments on: A Covenantal View of Atonement</title>
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		<title>By: Robert Hach</title>
		<link>http://www.thepaulpage.com/a-covenantal-view-of-atonement/comment-page-1/#comment-518</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Hach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Well written and shows understanding of and appreciation for the covenantal (that is, the biblical) version of God&#039;s justice/righteousness, and the dramatic difference that version of justice makes in the doctrine of the atonement. 

I have self-published my own manuscript on the same subject, titled, The Passion and Persuasion: A Deconstruction of the Evangelical Rhetoric of the Cross, wherein I address, in each chapter, respectively, the questions of justice, law, wrath, propitiation (along with redemption and reconciliation), and forgiveness, contrasting the traditional Evangelical doctrine of the atonement (i.e., as you say, the penal substitution theory, orginating with Anselm) with the biblical/covenantal understanding. 

The bottom line, as I elaborate at length in my book, is that the God of legal justice (i.e., the Evangelical God) is incapable of forgiveness because forgiveness is, by definition, the cancellation of an unpaid debt whereas, according to the Evangelical doctrine, the law-God cancelled the so-called universal debt of sin only because it was paid by himSelf in the person of his Son (the so-called &quot;second Person of the Godhead&quot;).

Only by means of a covenantal understanding of the atonement can the seeming contradiction of forgiveness as the cancellation of an unpaid debt, on one hand, and Jesus death-as-payment (as per the metaphors of both propitiation and redemption), on the other, be resolved in a way that is satisfactory to a faith that is not at odds with reason.

A summary of and excerpt from my book can be read and, if you wish, a copy purchased from www.xlibris.com.

Again, good work on a subject in radical need of reexamination and clarification.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well written and shows understanding of and appreciation for the covenantal (that is, the biblical) version of God&#8217;s justice/righteousness, and the dramatic difference that version of justice makes in the doctrine of the atonement. </p>
<p>I have self-published my own manuscript on the same subject, titled, The Passion and Persuasion: A Deconstruction of the Evangelical Rhetoric of the Cross, wherein I address, in each chapter, respectively, the questions of justice, law, wrath, propitiation (along with redemption and reconciliation), and forgiveness, contrasting the traditional Evangelical doctrine of the atonement (i.e., as you say, the penal substitution theory, orginating with Anselm) with the biblical/covenantal understanding. </p>
<p>The bottom line, as I elaborate at length in my book, is that the God of legal justice (i.e., the Evangelical God) is incapable of forgiveness because forgiveness is, by definition, the cancellation of an unpaid debt whereas, according to the Evangelical doctrine, the law-God cancelled the so-called universal debt of sin only because it was paid by himSelf in the person of his Son (the so-called &#8220;second Person of the Godhead&#8221;).</p>
<p>Only by means of a covenantal understanding of the atonement can the seeming contradiction of forgiveness as the cancellation of an unpaid debt, on one hand, and Jesus death-as-payment (as per the metaphors of both propitiation and redemption), on the other, be resolved in a way that is satisfactory to a faith that is not at odds with reason.</p>
<p>A summary of and excerpt from my book can be read and, if you wish, a copy purchased from <a href="http://www.xlibris.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.xlibris.com</a>.</p>
<p>Again, good work on a subject in radical need of reexamination and clarification.</p>
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		<title>By: Who Is Jesus Christ? - Christianity - Page 2 - City-Data Forum</title>
		<link>http://www.thepaulpage.com/a-covenantal-view-of-atonement/comment-page-1/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Who Is Jesus Christ? - Christianity - Page 2 - City-Data Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 23:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...]   Wasn&#039;t it Paul who came up with the atonement theory to explain why Jesus had to die?  A Covenantal View of Atonement &#124; The Paul Page    Your post is displaying general ignorance towards the entire Bible. Almost the entire Bible is [...] ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]   Wasn&#039;t it Paul who came up with the atonement theory to explain why Jesus had to die?  A Covenantal View of Atonement | The Paul Page    Your post is displaying general ignorance towards the entire Bible. Almost the entire Bible is [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Jason McNutt</title>
		<link>http://www.thepaulpage.com/a-covenantal-view-of-atonement/comment-page-1/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason McNutt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Feb 2011 15:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I agree with the idea of Christ being a mediator of the New Covenant but it does not come at the expense of substitution. This is not a western invention but clearly outlined in the OT. Moses was a mediator of the convenant but there was also specific sacrifices that were needed as atonement for sin. These sacrifices acted as substitutions which the author of Hebrews puts to Christ.

It seems much of this NPP debate has both sides throwing out the baby with the bathwater.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the idea of Christ being a mediator of the New Covenant but it does not come at the expense of substitution. This is not a western invention but clearly outlined in the OT. Moses was a mediator of the convenant but there was also specific sacrifices that were needed as atonement for sin. These sacrifices acted as substitutions which the author of Hebrews puts to Christ.</p>
<p>It seems much of this NPP debate has both sides throwing out the baby with the bathwater.</p>
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		<title>By: Revd Dr Andrew Tempelman</title>
		<link>http://www.thepaulpage.com/a-covenantal-view-of-atonement/comment-page-1/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>Revd Dr Andrew Tempelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jan 2011 18:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepaulpage.com/a-covenantal-view-of-atonement/#comment-17</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Start with the idea that the only justice is mercy, kindness, and you have your solution. And God never demands his son&#039;s death in Jesus descriptions of him, eg, Mt 5-6 and Lk 6, and certainly not in the Prodigal Son story or the Evil Vineyardmen. The latter is the real story of the Crucifixion, that gov&#039;t domination is what kills Christ and all Kindness that he taught and embodied. And that god hated, abhored the death of his son, he in no way planned it, or wanted it. Yet no one cries out that the Cross is a dread Warning against human domination trying to overcome divine Kindness. Not even after Hitler and Stalin killed their 50 million each, does the moribund church come up with the solution--find a local, Christ-based community solution to all &#039;great&#039; national gov&#039;ts and let Kindness rise in the earth. Until we see what we need, we&#039;ll never reach for it. Christ showed us all we need. Take another look, and be sure to tell all the people. -- ADT]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Start with the idea that the only justice is mercy, kindness, and you have your solution. And God never demands his son&#8217;s death in Jesus descriptions of him, eg, Mt 5-6 and Lk 6, and certainly not in the Prodigal Son story or the Evil Vineyardmen. The latter is the real story of the Crucifixion, that gov&#8217;t domination is what kills Christ and all Kindness that he taught and embodied. And that god hated, abhored the death of his son, he in no way planned it, or wanted it. Yet no one cries out that the Cross is a dread Warning against human domination trying to overcome divine Kindness. Not even after Hitler and Stalin killed their 50 million each, does the moribund church come up with the solution&#8211;find a local, Christ-based community solution to all &#8216;great&#8217; national gov&#8217;ts and let Kindness rise in the earth. Until we see what we need, we&#8217;ll never reach for it. Christ showed us all we need. Take another look, and be sure to tell all the people. &#8212; ADT</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.thepaulpage.com/a-covenantal-view-of-atonement/comment-page-1/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for this post!  I have finally found an explanation that puts it all together for me.  God is the God that never changes and is always faithful!  Justice, love and grace are all the same thing.  I would love more information on this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this post!  I have finally found an explanation that puts it all together for me.  God is the God that never changes and is always faithful!  Justice, love and grace are all the same thing.  I would love more information on this.</p>
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